“I believe no one can honestly claim to be entirely “self-made”. Everyone, at some point, receives help directly or indirectly. Recognizing this, I sought to learn from those who had navigated the challenges of a product career, aiming to avoid repeating their mistakes.”
Erwin Kim (BSc ‘13) is Head of Product and Design at Pocketnest. He graduated from the University of Michigan in 2013 with a Bachelor degree in Cellular & Molecular Biology and History. He joined Compass Professional Health Services as a Health Professional right after graduating from college. He then moved to the Bay Area and joined Science Exchange as a Customer Experience Manager for five months before joining FitStar in October 2014. Fitstar was acquired by Fitbit in March 2015, where Erwin stayed on the Customer Support and Operations team until July 2015. During his time at Fitbit, he made a lateral transition to a product-adjacent role with title as Product Specialist until April 2017. He felt he was fortunate enough to have known so many mentors who rooted in his transition to his first Associate Product Manager role at Sight Machine after almost three years in Fitbit/Fitstar. In the past five years, he explored a variety of product management roles in different industries, including Truepill, Integral, GeniusRx, Solve Finance and now Pocketnest.
1 What was your career plan in college?
To be honest, I didn’t have a clear idea of what career was going to be when I graduated. I majored in Cellular and Molecular Biology in college because I intended to go to medical school. But after that didn’t work out, I needed to figure out my next steps.
The only job I got was a healthcare consulting job in Dallas. I also considered moving to Korea where most of my family lives. I’m the only person in my family that was born, grew up, and now still lives in the US. I thought it would be a great opportunity to connect with my family, but there were complications due to a law passed in 2010 that would require me to serve in the military even though I was not born in Korea.
I also knew I didn’t want to pursue a Masters of Science or a PhD program. So I just took that job in Dallas immediately after I graduated. But at that point I really didn’t know what I was going to do or the path I was going to take either professionally or personally. I only stayed in my first job for just under a year, because the role and city weren’t a fit.
I had always been interested in technology because I grew up pretty poor. And tech served as a way for me to figure out how to fill gaps in my knowledge. I learned how to parallel park from YouTube videos (laughs). I didn’t really know what startups meant at the time. While the concept of startups was initially unfamiliar, embracing a tech startup job provided an opportunity to both escape my current situation and relocate to the Bay Area. My first role at a tech startup, Science Exchange, was in customer success management. This was my entry point into the tech field which would eventually land me in Product.
2 After Scientific Exchange, you joined FitStar, which was acquired by Fitbit in 2015. And you got your first role that is closer to the product function in Fitbit. How did that transition happen?
My path towards product management was fairly chaotic. I also think I’m still transitioning – there’s a lot left to learn and the role is constantly changing.
I left Science Exchange after I realized the role and company weren’t a fit. I then joined another startup that was called FitStar which aligned more with my personal interests in fitness. Not long after Fitstar’s acquisition by Fitbit, I moved from a customer support role to a product specialist role internally.
It was at Fitbit that I began to get exposure to different tech roles. I did tons of informational interviews with engineering, project management, program management, product management, design, etc.. Afterwards, I decided to pursue a career in Product. I did this for a few reasons. First, even though I was also interested in product design, product management seemed more interesting with a greater variety of responsibilities. Second, the skill set required in product management aligned really well with my desire to be a founder of a company. Third, the leadership style really appealed to me – I’m a huge fan of horizontal and trust based leadership. Product managers work by communicating and collaborating rather than demanding. Fourth, product management forces you to get familiar with all areas involved in building and supporting a product.
I still think I’m transitioning because product management is highly contextually dependent on a company’s market, size, product org structure, and product philosophy. The way I transitioned and continue to explore has two parts – diverse companies and diverse mentors.
I looked for jobs in a variety of different companies because I wanted to know if product management was right for me. In the past ten years, I’ve worked at seven companies. I got exposed to different markets and learned about how different product orgs functioned – big publicly traded companies, supply chain based, financial technology focused, healthtech, etc.
And I also looked for mentors with diverse domain or career expertise. These mentors provided valuable insight into different types of product organizations, and the generalized skills all product managers should have. Those mentors were critical to my successful transition.
3 How did you navigate through getting your first Product Manager titled job?
The first product management job I got was an entry level role at Sight Machine. Getting the job was probably the hardest obstacle in my professional career.
I interviewed for six months straight, sent applications to over 100 companies, did 20+ take-home assignment/case study interviews and got one offer. Part of it being challenging was because I came from a nontraditional background, outside of engineering or business. It’s also challenging because companies typically expect some amount of direct product management experience – AKA you built something .
There’s also systemic challenges. Typically a company needs to grow enough to get to the point where they can justify the resources for a junior product manager. There are also plenty of people who transition internally. Therefore, the pool of junior product management positions is super small. For people from non-traditional paths, it’s probably most beneficial starting a product career from a startup that has a Head of Product who is willing to both hire and guide a junior PM.
I believe no one can honestly claim to be entirely “self-made”. Everyone, at some point, receives help directly or indirectly. Recognizing this, I sought to learn from those who had navigated the challenges of a product career, aiming to avoid repeating their mistakes.
The realization dawned on me that consulting those who have already experienced the trials and tribulations of a product career is invaluable. After all, I don’t know what I don’t know, and the only way to mitigate risks is to learn from those who have been through it. I wouldn’t be where I’m at without help from my mentors.
4 What are the skill sets that are critical to PM? How can current students (both undergrad and graduate) find ways to learn those skills?
There are a few approaches that can be considered. This isn’t an exhaustive list, and you should probably combine them.
First, build something. One of the key skills of a product manager is the ability to define a problem and find a solution to it. The process of building a solution naturally builds expertise in core competencies of product management.
Second, evaluate past experiences. A lot of people have done product management without realizing it. For example, even in a non-product management context, you must have solved a problem before. And it’s also important to narrate those stories effectively. Narration is important for interviewing, but also, how you communicate approaches or strategies (both past and present) to teams you work with in the role.
Third, become fluent in the language of product management and how to communicate problem solving approaches. Communication is probably the most important skill for product manager’s to have. You need to be able to communicate that you understand a problem and can deconstruct it into logical, actionable steps. Use interview guides and case studies to help you develop and understand frameworks for problem-solving. Practice with others, use these skills in projects at school, think about how you’d make something better.
5 Tell us something not on your LinkedIn/resume
I’m working on a tattoo body suit and currently have about 75% done. I also have a dog named Bob.
“Iris: This is by far the career that had most explorations involved. If we break a career down into horizontal exploration and vertical exploration, where horizontal exploration refers to position/functionalities changes vs. vertical exploration refers to industry differences, Erwin’s career had such a diverse matrix. We tend to settle down for safe choices. But learnings are more memorizable when we try them out.”
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